I’m delighted to introduce you to Rob Mackenzie, a poet based in Scotland whose blogs at Surroundings . We got rather carried away when I interviewed him as he had some many interesting things to share so this interview is in two parts.
Rob was born in Glasgow in 1964. He lived in Seoul, Korea for 18 months around 1989-90 before returning to the west of Scotland. He read poetry at the Bar Brel in Glasgow through the mid-nineties. Then he and his wife and moved to Turin, Italy for 4-5 years, where their daughter was born. For the last couple of years they have lived in Edinburgh. He has published poems in many literary magazines in the UK, in a few webzines, and in a poetry chapbook, The Clown of Natural Sorrow, on HappenStance Press www.happenstancepress.com
YM: What drew you to write poetry? When did you write your first poem?
Rob: I wrote my first poem aged 13, but it took me twenty more years before I got any accepted for publication. That first one was set in English class at school. We had to write a rhyming ballad, so I wrote one about a mouse that chaseda terrified cat around a house. Then I fell under the spell of Gerald Manley Hopkins. I loved his sounds and rhythms and I wrote some awful imitations.
In my twenties I got into French existentialist fiction (Sartre, Camus, de Beauvoir) and made the mistake of trying to write poetry that took its bearings from their ideas. It was really pretentious stuff! But in my thirties, I began to find that I had something to say of my own and that language could be utilised to do interesting things without all the pretension.
How often do you write now? What inspires you/ gives you the idea for a poem?
I write more or less every day. I am quite disciplined about it. I dont always write poetry, but Im always jotting down ideas, phrases and thoughts. A poem can come from a real life event (although I tend to change things if change helps a poem), from a title, image or line that pops into my head and seems to demand continuation, from snippets of conversation, or from thoughts Ive had on any given issue. I tend to write best if I let the initial idea simmer in my brain for a few days or weeks and then sit down with the opening few lines already in my head.
Can you tell us something about the kind of poetry you write?
I tend to try my hand at lots of things. Im comfortable with free verse, rhyme, loose metre, strict form, even the occasional experimental piece. People tell me my poems can be quite complex, which might be true. I always write to communicate with readers, but sometimes a poem can take more than one read through to become clear. I write a lot about relationships, identity, faith and doubt, political issues, endings of one kind or another. That sounds very serious, but I use a lot of humour in my poems too!
Is being Scottish a strong part of your identity? What does being Scottish mean to you?
I’m not particularly nationalistic, until someone criticises Scotland. I am Scottish and Im sure thats shaped me in all kinds of indefinable ways. Its not something Ive explored all that much. Maybe I should. That might well be a future project.
Is your poetry Scottish poetry? (as opposed to English poetry/ Welsh poetry or just plain old “poetry”)
I feel its just plain old poetry. I dont write in Scots or Gaelic and while Ive written a few poems about Scottish identity, its not a theme Ive majored on. I know some of my poet-colleagues here are far more interested in doing this than I am and are influenced mainly by other Scottish poets. I like several Scottish poets John Burnside, Edwin Morgan, Norman MacCaig, Don Paterson, Roddy Lumsden they are excellent writers. But my influences come from all over Rilke (Germany), Roy Fisher (England), Charles Simic (USA), Miroslav Holub (Czech Republic), and many others.
You spent 18 months in South Koreain 1989-90. What were you doing there? Do you speak Korean?
I did various things. I studied Korean Minjung theology, a kind of liberation theology that incorporated bits of Korean folk tradition, Marxism, and the Bible. I worked a couple of days a week in a smallish church, and I taught English to a few people. But I spent most of the time meeting people, travelling, eating the fiery food, and drinking maccoli (rice-based alcoholic drink). I learned enough Korean to ask for things in shops etc very basic stuff, nearly all of which Ive forgotten. It was a very difficult language.
What cultural differences did you notice?
So many of the cultural differences were in the mind and kept there. Sometimes people would grin at something I said or did, but when I asked why, they would never tell me. Its OK. No problem. Just Korean culture. Its OK, you are a Westerner! The Koreans were such hospitable people. I made a lot of friends there.
Relationships with women were fraught with problems. I found it impossible to know the etiquette, the rules of engagement. Korean women often seemed to flirt with me, but I think it was because the idea of going out with a westerner was so ridiculous to them (due to family expectations and tradition) that they felt safe getting close to me.
But sometimes it got confusing. I remember a woman called Hae-jang. I went out with her a few times and had no idea of how to progress the relationship. Then I met another woman, Jeung-wha, who I fell in love with in a matter of days.In fact, probably within five minutes! I didnt think it would matter to Hae-jang. I was convinced she saw me as only a friend. How wrong I was! Apparently she was furious, but she, and all her friends, refused to speak to me ever again.And then it didnt work out with Jeung-wha who ended up going off to a Zen temple in the countryside and.. well that was the last I saw or heard of her.
I once invited a woman named Gil-sun to have a coffee in my room (we were standing outside it at the time). It was an entirely innocent invitation. Yes, she replied, as she began walking away.
Well, lets go, I said, pointing. Its up here.
Yes, she said, and kept walking in the other direction. Life was full of moments like that! The answer to any question was always what you wanted to hear, even if what then happened was in direct contradiction.
How has that time in East Asia influenced you?
Yes. It made a huge impact on me. I learned what it was like to be utterly clueless, unable to understand a language and culture, and to be far away from home. And Korea was only just emerging from years of military dictatorship and there were strikes, protests, and trouble all the time. I learned the effect of tear gas the hard way. But at the same time, I had a fantastic experience in Korea and I learned the meaning of hospitality for the stranger there.
Did you write poetry while you were in S Korea? Or later, looking back on that time? How do you think the East influenced your writing?
I didnt write any poetry at the time. I wrote about 20 songs and the guys in my band told me they were the worst songs Id ever written. Since that time I have written a few poems about Korea, one of which was published in the Avatar Review . I also wrote one about how I fell in love with Jeung-wha and why it didnt work, which is unpublished and will probably remain so.
I think going outside my own culture has given me a deeper understanding of people. Not that I can understand what its like to be Korean, but that I can understand something of what it is like to be a foreigner.I grew up a lot in that period. Even though it was only 18 months, it took me a while to settle back into life in Scotlandagain. The culture shock on my return seemed stronger than when I first arrived in Seoul.
Come back next Wednesday for Part 2 when Rob talks about his time in Italy and returning home to Scotland. He also shares one of his poems with us.
It made me think of Dickens, who used to be able to write anywhere. In the evenings, his friends would be gathered round entertaining themselves with parlour games and dancing and chat. And he’d be there with them all, scribbling away at his novel!
